Rendered at 14:26:54 GMT+0000 (Coordinated Universal Time) with Cloudflare Workers.
throwa356262 19 hours ago [-]
All Canada needs to do to become the center of innovation now is to... become 10°C warmer.
_aavaa_ 19 hours ago [-]
Warmer would help, but the latitude difference still gets you on sun height and hours of daylight in the winter months.
beAbU 7 hours ago [-]
Ireland nd UK are doing fine and we're farther north than most Canadian cities.
throwa356262 18 hours ago [-]
I dont know, warm weather but not too much direct sunlight could actually be a good thing.
whoamii 17 hours ago [-]
This is why their forests are currently burning
jerlam 18 hours ago [-]
They're getting a nice assist from global warming.
wetpaws 18 hours ago [-]
[dead]
hn_submit 19 hours ago [-]
Wasn't this struck down because by law the Federal Government can only charge the cost of producing a visa? The amount cannot be arbitrary in any way.
Or has the Trump Administration found a workaround for this?
QGQBGdeZREunxLe 14 hours ago [-]
There's an attempt under "Cost Basis" to justify the cost.
===
The proposed ~$8.78B/year in H-1B fee revenue would be allocated roughly as follows:
USCIS: $3.00B (34.2%)
EOIR / immigration courts: $2.96B (33.7%)
DOL: $1.21B (13.8%)
ICE: $1.05B (11.9%)
State Department: $484M (5.5%)
CBP: $76.2M (0.9%)
Total: ~$8.78B/year
> Notably, only $79.2M of the $8.78B is specifically allocated to DOL's H-1B program.
iAMkenough 17 hours ago [-]
The workaround is not caring and doing it anyways, letting the taxpayers pay for endless appeals
wtfHN26 20 hours ago [-]
Most likely these companies will set up GCCs offshore. Moving the jobs abroad.
Whatever tax and living + lifestyle expenses that USA economy was making from H1B's will be gone.
Good for the rest of the world.
lingua_franca 19 hours ago [-]
The government can penalize companies for doing so.
potatoking 19 hours ago [-]
Not really.. Corporations have enough holdings abroad to survive and kill a party or two.
lingua_franca 19 hours ago [-]
Any examples?
18 hours ago [-]
Daishiman 18 hours ago [-]
Anything that can't be done by the company will be outsourced to a consultancy. This already happens; a lot of work in Google products is done by external agencies.
lingua_franca 17 hours ago [-]
Did Google give work to external agencies because American employees couldn't do it, or because external agencies were cheaper? What happens when they are no longer cheaper w/ the government penalty?
Daishiman 16 hours ago [-]
A lot of companies reasonably prefer to outsource software work that they don't deem part of their value-add or core competency for the same reason any other company outsources that kind of work. It may or may not be a cost reason (it usually isn't because contractors are not cheap even outsourced ones), it's mostly because you don't want to increase payroll for these tasks or the tasks are of temporary nature.
This is not avoidable, and trying to make it illegal would just kill of American software companies.
As an example: a friend of mine worked for a large consultancy that worked on menu screens for gaming companies. The reason for this is that game companies aren't interested in developing specialized UIs for each game but there are outsourcing agencies that already have entire pipelines set up for this and are basically a sausage factory of game menus for most major game engines.
lmz 14 hours ago [-]
Of course you can outsource without offshoring.
Daishiman 8 hours ago [-]
Not if you actually want to get the best talent in the world.
lmz 8 hours ago [-]
The "best talent in the world" should have no problem with that six figure sum, then.
> If being in the U.S. didn’t offer advantages they wouldn’t be here to begin with.
For companies hiring H1Bs it's about being closer to clients and colleagues and just being managerially far easier than opening an offshore office, but the benefit isn't infinite and once companies have the chops for opening new offices they'll turn down the H1B hiring.
The issue for the US is that, are you're saying, "having faith in your own country" only works if you have the process for developing unnaturally skillfull talent, which is just not going to happen once the smart people stop moving to the US as countries have uniformly distributed talent potential.
rayiner 10 hours ago [-]
> only works if you have the process for developing unnaturally skillfull talent, which is just not going to happen once the smart people stop moving to the US
So how did America become a world power before H1B? The U.S. was the world’s largest industrial power by the early 20th century with almost zero skilled immigration. We had restrictionist immigration policies from 1921-1965 and skilled immigration after that was a trickle until the 1990s. Apart from one-off events like German scientists after World War II, immigration was heavily skewed towards poor but hard workers.
Daishiman 8 hours ago [-]
Because unskilled work and a gigantic natural resource base was the basis for wealth of the 19th century but that doesn’t hold up anymore?
hollerith 16 hours ago [-]
You seem to have interpreted "have faith in your own country" as "have faith in the people who grew up here" whereas I interpreted it is as more like "have faith that the parts of the country's institutions and culture responsible for its excellent economic performance will continue to prove difficult for other countries to replicate".
rayiner 15 hours ago [-]
Those two things are strongly overlapping. People are socialized into the institutions and culture that other countries find difficult to replicate.
Daishiman 8 hours ago [-]
Having seen American institutions up close I’m sorry to say that if you subtract the people who have bought into the American dream you’ll find that it’s educational institutions are unremarkable.
add-sub-mul-div 18 hours ago [-]
There's certainly fewer barriers to offshoring now that employees have insisted there's no benefit to being onsite.
bubblethink 17 hours ago [-]
This is a nice trick. Since SCOTUS barred universal injunctions, the government can implement whatever batshit ideology they want until the case makes its way through the judicial system. Often that is a year or two. And even if it is eventually vacated, like the tariffs or the previous iteration of this fee, the damage is already done, as you cannot go back in time.
FatherOfCurses 18 hours ago [-]
In other words, companies who rely on H1B visas are not donating enough to Trump 2028 or the Republican party.
budman1 12 hours ago [-]
Elon has been trying, he is not putting in money for the midterms for his health. Tim brought him a statue of gold....
This is not due to bribery. Everyone using H1B have already done the bribing.
The Republican base is demanding this. They want jobs for themselves and their kids.
mexicojalisco 15 hours ago [-]
Good. What’s happening now in the corporate world (and other
places) is very distasteful. Americans shouldn’t have to compete against the whole world to get a job in the USA
rationalist 14 hours ago [-]
I forgot where I heard this, but the thought is that if a country takes the world's best and brightest, it means those other countries that they are coming from lose their best and brightest, making it harder for those other countries to succeed.
xkcd1963 3 minutes ago [-]
Arguably it leaves room for people that DO NOT profit from nepotism and generational wealth when the "best and brightest" leave. A lot of important people don't even filter into "best and brightest", while people acclaimed with this title are sometimes completely useless.
onetimeusename 10 hours ago [-]
Well arguably H-1B is being abused specifically to lower wages. I think we're aware especially given the contrived ways of circumventing how H-1B is supposed to be used like deliberately advertising jobs in an obscure print newspaper that doesn't even get circulated or modifying the job description to suit an international candidate alone.
This is one of the problems with this issue. People talking about it are pretty clueless and have no idea what they're talking about. They get whipped up into an ignorant frenzy about something they don't understand. H-1B has no requirement for advertising in newspapers.
>But for me, a larger concern is elite overproduction.
Props for finding incredibly niche and out-there theories to support your worldview. This is kind of nice about HN. Normally, people would just cite the great replacement theory or other leftist slop to support protectionism, but you found something even more bizarre. It reminds me of how Vance talks. He'll bring up latin incantations like ordo amoris to justify otherwise mundane cruelties.
gosub100 2 hours ago [-]
And companies shouldnt lie and say "we just can't find people!"
mattrighetti 14 hours ago [-]
> Americans shouldn’t have to compete against the whole world to get a job in the USA
Milton Friedman would have a couple of things to say about that
budman1 12 hours ago [-]
He would, except for he has been dead for 20 years.
iAMkenough 15 hours ago [-]
Why not? Let the Free Market decide.
If Americans can’t compete on merit, that’s their own fault. We don’t need reverse DEI.
I thought the argument and attacks on DEI policies were about not hiring solely based on merit.
Now you’re asking for a safe space where unqualified Americans get jobs over more qualified candidates.
mexicojalisco 15 hours ago [-]
Because the country through policy should not act directly against the interests of its citizens. Blue collar is gone and white collar is halfway there. Why even have borders? The government is by the people FOR the people. Not AGAINST the people FOR corporate profits. The h1b is being abused against it’s original intent.
bubblethink 15 hours ago [-]
That's for Congress to decide, not armchair commentators on HN, nor the executive branch.
14 hours ago [-]
cosmicgadget 10 hours ago [-]
I don't think he is advocating for this but rather juxtaposing it with common right wing talking points.
karanbhangui 15 hours ago [-]
Good immigration policy should serve the existing citizens of a nation.
mancerayder 12 hours ago [-]
A city's leadership shouldn't try to look after the city's interest? The answer to that is so obvious, you should look to explaining why it doesn't apply to the elected leadership of a nation.
iAMkenough 7 hours ago [-]
Why should America’s best and brightest minds have to sacrifice the quality of talent on their teams? Choosing a less qualified candidate because of where the most qualified candidate was born.
How is encouraging brain drain looking out for best interests?
like_any_other 15 hours ago [-]
Having a country is now "reverse DEI". Good to know.
pnw_throwaway 15 hours ago [-]
Go blow it out your ass
bellowsgulch 18 hours ago [-]
I vote for Democrats. Sad they didn't step up for American tech workers though, and the guy shitting himself did.
the_optimist 17 hours ago [-]
why?
bellowsgulch 17 hours ago [-]
Track record of the Democratic party vs the Republican party
throwawayffffas 16 hours ago [-]
No, why are you saying they didn't step up. They lost the presidency, the house and the senate and the supreme court has had a conservative majority since before Bidens term. So what didn't they do, that they could have done?
stackskipton 16 hours ago [-]
Most American tech workers, myself included, have been asking for program to be reformed so it’s actually given to highly skilled workers and not used as method of outsourcing in the US.
It’s not a new problem but Democrats and non Trump Republicans have done nothing and here comes Trump trying to something. It won’t survive court challenges most likely.
bellowsgulch 13 hours ago [-]
Don't give away our job to Indians? I mean what do you want here, it's not a post-grad course. If H1Bs are for "highly specialized knowledge," why the fuck are we taking in Indians at below par cost for American "highly specialized knowledge?"
Why is there not a highly significant fee or compensation threshold to prevent abuse?
bubblethink 8 hours ago [-]
But why not? Your [right to a] job isn't something enshrined in the constitution. Congress deemed it appropriate for your job to be given to someone else, for they provide better value than you do. The answer to all your "why" questions is - "Because Congress deemed it so".
runicelf 14 hours ago [-]
When you can’t beat illegal migration, just make legal migration more difficult, works like a charm every time.
Or has the Trump Administration found a workaround for this?
===
The proposed ~$8.78B/year in H-1B fee revenue would be allocated roughly as follows:
USCIS: $3.00B (34.2%)
EOIR / immigration courts: $2.96B (33.7%)
DOL: $1.21B (13.8%)
ICE: $1.05B (11.9%)
State Department: $484M (5.5%)
CBP: $76.2M (0.9%)
Total: ~$8.78B/year
> Notably, only $79.2M of the $8.78B is specifically allocated to DOL's H-1B program.
Whatever tax and living + lifestyle expenses that USA economy was making from H1B's will be gone.
Good for the rest of the world.
This is not avoidable, and trying to make it illegal would just kill of American software companies.
As an example: a friend of mine worked for a large consultancy that worked on menu screens for gaming companies. The reason for this is that game companies aren't interested in developing specialized UIs for each game but there are outsourcing agencies that already have entire pipelines set up for this and are basically a sausage factory of game menus for most major game engines.
Ohio senator introduces 25% tax on companies that outsource jobs overseas - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45146528 - September 2025
For companies hiring H1Bs it's about being closer to clients and colleagues and just being managerially far easier than opening an offshore office, but the benefit isn't infinite and once companies have the chops for opening new offices they'll turn down the H1B hiring.
The issue for the US is that, are you're saying, "having faith in your own country" only works if you have the process for developing unnaturally skillfull talent, which is just not going to happen once the smart people stop moving to the US as countries have uniformly distributed talent potential.
So how did America become a world power before H1B? The U.S. was the world’s largest industrial power by the early 20th century with almost zero skilled immigration. We had restrictionist immigration policies from 1921-1965 and skilled immigration after that was a trickle until the 1990s. Apart from one-off events like German scientists after World War II, immigration was heavily skewed towards poor but hard workers.
This is not due to bribery. Everyone using H1B have already done the bribing.
The Republican base is demanding this. They want jobs for themselves and their kids.
But for me, a larger concern is elite overproduction (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Turchin#Elite_overproduc...). We've basically massively expanded the number of highly credentialed people in the country and this might not be a good idea.
>But for me, a larger concern is elite overproduction.
Props for finding incredibly niche and out-there theories to support your worldview. This is kind of nice about HN. Normally, people would just cite the great replacement theory or other leftist slop to support protectionism, but you found something even more bizarre. It reminds me of how Vance talks. He'll bring up latin incantations like ordo amoris to justify otherwise mundane cruelties.
Milton Friedman would have a couple of things to say about that
If Americans can’t compete on merit, that’s their own fault. We don’t need reverse DEI.
I thought the argument and attacks on DEI policies were about not hiring solely based on merit.
Now you’re asking for a safe space where unqualified Americans get jobs over more qualified candidates.
How is encouraging brain drain looking out for best interests?
It’s not a new problem but Democrats and non Trump Republicans have done nothing and here comes Trump trying to something. It won’t survive court challenges most likely.
Why is there not a highly significant fee or compensation threshold to prevent abuse?